Comments in Support of Chama Chile Ski Trails by TODAY (Jan 31st)!

Apparently the snowmobilers have also been writing in a lot regarding this closure, so it is very important that we get as many comments in support of it as we can. To support closure of Chama Chile Ski Trails to motorized (snowmobilers) traffic please send your comment in by end of TODAY to  amjones@fs.fed.us  (the longer email address listed below bounced for a few people). If you need a sample message to copy you may use/modify this one as you see fit:

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This letter is in support of the closure of Windy Point to snowmobiling. 

Reserving this small area for xc skiing and snowshoeing will help diversify and strengthen local economy and provide recreational opportunity to a wider segment of population.

The Chama Chile Ski Classic that uses that area for their event, should have the right to limited (grooming only) motorized access as it is a historic event. It is the oldest xc ski race in the southwest and is attracting 100s of people every year (as well as non-racers who love to use the groomed tracks to ski and snowshoe for weeks after the event underlining the need and demand for this recreation and resulting need for safety in the area).

This closure would take nothing away from snowmobilers due to the modest size of this area especially when compared to the size of the adjacent spaces that are already open to motorized access.

Please close Windy Point to motorized vehicles!

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see below regarding details of the closure proposal etc.

---------- Forwarded message ----------

It is requested that all comments on this closure be received by January 31, 2012 in order to be most

effectively considered. 

Dina

Date: January 15, 2012
To: Skiers and Snowshoers
From: Chama Valley Outdoor Club

Issue: Rio Grande National Forest Needs Your Comments By January 31
Topic: Winter Closure for Chama Chile Ski Trails Area or Windy Point (see
attachment)

On January 11, the Rio Grande National Forest published a call for comment
to close Windy Point, the site of the Chama Chile Ski Classic, to winter
motorized use for up to 5 years. This is the first step in the scoping
process for our special use permit to continue grooming the trails after
the Martin Luther King race weekend. Please find attached a PDF file of
the notice from the Rio Grande website with more information.

WE NEED YOU TO SEND COMMENTS TO THE FOREST IN SUPPORT OF THIS CLOSURE!

The Forest Service needs to justify this closure, and we can provide that
justification. Please tell the Forest Service to enact the closure for
these reasons:

1. Skiers and snowshoers need a space in the Cumbres Pass area without
snowmobiles where they can pursue quiet winter sports.

2. The proposed closure goes a long way to eliminate the safety and
social conflict issues inherent in mixing winter motorized and
non-motorized use.

3. The Windy Point location of approximately 500 acres is well defined
geographically.

4. Windy Point historically has been a skier area; the 39th Chama Chile
Ski Classic was just held last weekend.

To get comments in as quickly as possible, we recommend that you email to:
comments-rocky-mountain-rio-grande-conejos-peak@fs.fed.us

This is your opportunity to help make groomed trails on Cumbres Pass a
reality. Thank you for your support!

see below actual request for public comment on the closure:

Windy Point Winter Motorized Closure

Release Date: Jan 11, 2012

The Rio Grande National Forest is seeking public comment on a proposed closure order

prohibiting motorized over the snow use at Windy Point.  The proposed closure area that

we are calling Windy Point is on the west side of Cumbres Pass, adjacent to and

north/west of Highway 17. This area has been traditionally used for a cross-country ski

and snowshoe race in January for over 20 years.

The legal description is NMPM T32N. R4E. Sec. 12 & 13.

The purpose would be to provide a motorized closure for over the snow travel on the area

for up to 5 years. This would provide an area, currently not being utilized by motorized

winter recreationists, for non-motorized recreation.  There is a history of conflict between

the winter recreationists who enjoy the Cumbres Pass Area.  There is concern among the

public regarding the safety of mixed motorized and non-motorized use.  The Forest

Service will be encouraging users to come together to propose a long-term solution for

the larger scale recreation use issue.

A map and additional information on the project is available on the Rio Grande

National Forest website at http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/riogrande/projects 

Those wishing to comment are encouraged to submit their concerns in writing to:

Conejos Peak Ranger District

Attention: Windy Point Winter Motorized Closure

15571 County Road T.5

La Jara, CO 81140

E-mail comments may be sent to: comments-rocky-mountain-rio-grande-conejospeak@fs.fed.us

It is requested that all comments be received by January 31, 2012 in order to be most

effectively considered.  For further information about this proposal, please contact

Jeremiah Martinez at 719-274-6320.

Monday Evening Grooming 1/30/2012

Trails were regroomed tonight. The burn area is definitely having some issues due to all of the debris and black soot in the snow, so be very careful in there and know that down toward Point A, there are actually bare patches now, on both the upper trail and the lower road. They're not very long and can be "portaged" pretty quickly. One could ski up to the bare patches, take skis off, take a few steps and put skis back on, and repeat, about 3 or 4 times, then be on continuous snow the rest of the way.

In the past, I've used "skins" on the bottoms of my skis and just cruised up the hill and across the bare patches until I was beyond them, then took them off and skied the rest of the system. Once I was done and headed out, I put them back on and cruised back down to the car...not a big deal and it was quick and easy and a good way to warm up and cool down. Otherwise, one could just hike beside the ice on the front hill to just beyond Point A and then put on the skis.

Anyway, I ground up the skate lane nicely and left the classic track the way it is for now. I did reset the track out in the upper meadow because there was some nice soft snow and a track would set nicely. It had been destroyed from the weekend multi-use traffic and some drifting. It should ski well the rest of the week. Watch out for some ice around "the Rock" below Point J.

I also groomed the lower cutoffs as much as I could. They take extra loops to get groomed, so they don't always get the attention that the other trails do. They look great at the moment, though.

Lastly, a group of inconsiderate hikers with multiple dogs had hiked the entire trail system when it was somewhat warm, inflicting considerable damage to the trails, especially with our dearth of snow and dry winter pattern. It took more passes than usual to clean the system up (more equipment wear and tear, more gas, more of our volunteer hours, etc...), and it is still evident. That is a serious bummer. I have to admit, it makes me lose a little motivation when I see that. We're desperately short on grooming volunteers, so the conditions will suffer even more from stuff like that...

Hopefully, we'll see some new snow later this week. We need it!

Saturday afternoon conditions on our trail

Altho the temps today were a bit cooler than late January averages, ski conditions were pretty grim looking right up until the new Point B1, and we ended up walking all the way up to there.  However, at the end of our session we were able to ski out as far as Point A, no problem in the warm wet snow below B1.

Skiing up the trail system from B1, things were just great,  we skied from 1:30PM till about 2:45 on blue klister covered with VR40.  Most of the tracks were crisp, styrofoam, not wet, and very nice.  :o)

However 3 hiker creeps and their dog did walk the entire woods trail except for TJ's, hiking down from the top, 3 abreast, on the portion of our trails that the Forest Service has closed to hiking and snowshoeing.    Fortunately they did it this morning while everything was still frozen so they did no damage to the skating lane, and they didn't walk in the classic tracks.

But the upsetting part was when I got up to Point L on top, I could tell from their tracks that they had planned to do just what they did, they weren't lost or confused, their tracks came up the multiple use meadow trail and they turned directly left into the ski trail at L and headed back down the woods trail, no hesitation, or signs of being lost, past several warning signs .... they wanted to hike the entire loop with their dog up the road and down the woods loops, so they did it.  Jerks!

Ah well....

Sure was a great afternoon of classic skiing, and I want to add that had we been skating, it wd have been perfect too.

Thanks to you groomers, this seems to be a rather permanent grooming job you guys did last week. I've never seen tracks hold up so well.   :o)


tom

Skiing on Sandia crest

We need some fresh blood as well to help out. Please anyone that can help by just shoveling for 30 minutes or snow shoeing to help pack trails to enable, hopefully, Fredrik to groom again soon. I and Chris are pretty burned out shoveling snow. But if we can get some new volunteers I think we might do some more next week. The lower switchback trail (about a quarter mile section) needs to be shoveled to level it out, making it wider for the ski and snowshoe traffic and so Fredrik can groom it.
Anyway the service road was groomed again after the last small snow 3"(Monday nite and Tuesday am) + 1" (last nite). The 1" was on top of the grooming. UNM trail is in pretty good shape for classic (no machine tracks) and can be skated if you want to work hard.

Conditions Report 1/24/2012

Denny and Ken went up and finished the job off after the bits of snow (and wind) we received this week. The drifts have been knocked down as much as possible and the finish grooming job looked just stellar, especially beyond the burn area.

Classic track is in, the cutoffs got groomed, the lower meadow trail was rerouted to avoid the icy/wind-blown sketchy section, and the skate deck is smooth and pretty firm.

Remember, there are a few very thin and not-so-great sections on the front hill and also above and below Point A. Be cautious through the burn area, as there are some thin spots that were covered up by this last round of snow. I picked up a TON of sticks, rocks and general tree charcoal from the wind, but there's still a lot more out there.

We may need to shovel some spots next week to see if we can salvage a couple of spots if it looks like a storm is coming...otherwise we give up on it and let them "open up" such that we must walk over them. We'll see.

Otherwise, the rest of the trail system is in fantastic condition. It's crazy how much variability there is in the conditions. It's about 95% excellent as of right now, though!!!

Don't forget about the Low O2 Challenge (New Mexico Cup) up at Enchanted Forest this weekend. See www.efxc.com for details. Ski it, tour it, or race it...all comers are welcome and encouraged!

Trail grooming update

Hi all,

I don't normally post trail conditions via the group emails, but decided to post something since we (or I...) have not been updating the blog very well.  We (club grooming volunteers) are very short-handed with the grooming efforts this year (injuries, absentees, etc.) and things are not as scheduled as they have been in the past.  Hopefully we find some fresh blood, er, uh, new volunteers to help out with grooming in the future =o)

Anyway, we've been receiving little scraps of snow here and there, although last evening's/today's storm is a bit of a bust.  We were hoping for at least 4" more with no wind this time to freshen things up and sit on top of the wind-scoured areas, but we only got an inch or two.  Fortunately, the last storm left more than we had expected, but the wind was not so good.  The meadows got hammered with big drifts that took some concentrated effort to bust through...that effort was last evening in anticipation of today's storm.  We also had to cut out some downfall and clean a lot of debris off the trail.  If you see debris, please take the time to pick it up and toss it off to the side.

Another grooming session is planned for this evening to go over the little bit of fresh overnight and further smooth out the drifts, and finally put in a classic track throughout the system.  After all of the wind the past couple of weeks, we rerouted that sketchy/crusty/icy stretch at the bottom of the meadow (where it enters/exits the woods above Point O) to a tighter, and unfortunately, more off-camber line; but, there is lots of fresh snow on that stretch that will undoubtedly ski much nicer and make for a safer descent into the woods. 

The front hill access and a few short stretches above and below Point A are still at bare minimum coverage and need to be skied with much care and caution.  We just haven't gotten those areas covered since the thaw, so it's likely we'll see some spots "open up" there if we get into another dry pattern, which looks somewhat likely. 

Otherwise, the rest of the trails look fantastic, amazingly!  I don't think I've ever seen this much variability in conditions from the lower to upper parts of the trails.  It was just a strange series of events that have led to this and hopefully we can take some measures in the coming years to rectify the situation.  I'd say less than 5% is at the fair/poor stage, while everything else is good to great.  Just be cautious and have patience on your ski.  There is lots of great skiing to be had out there.

One more request:
Please don't hike/walk in the trails when it's warm, and even try to ski when it's a bit colder.  Trail use in warm temps is very damaging to the base and takes a lot of grooming to fix. 

Have fun.

Clay Moseley

Comment in Support of Chama Chile Ski Trails by Jan 31st!

Please make a comments to emails, phone or addresses below in support of closure of Chama Chile Ski Trails to motorized vehicles during winter! See points and details below. Website with map and address appear at very bottom. Please make sure to comment on this by January 31st!

Date: January 15, 2012
To: Skiers and Snowshoers
From: Chama Valley Outdoor Club

Issue: Rio Grande National Forest Needs Your Comments By January 31
Topic: Winter Closure for Chama Chile Ski Trails Area or Windy Point (see
attachment)

On January 11, the Rio Grande National Forest published a call for comment
to close Windy Point, the site of the Chama Chile Ski Classic, to winter
motorized use for up to 5 years. This is the first step in the scoping
process for our special use permit to continue grooming the trails after
the Martin Luther King race weekend. Please find attached a PDF file of
the notice from the Rio Grande website with more information.

WE NEED YOU TO SEND COMMENTS TO THE FOREST IN SUPPORT OF THIS CLOSURE!

The Forest Service needs to justify this closure, and we can provide that
justification. Please tell the Forest Service to enact the closure for
these reasons:

1. Skiers and snowshoers need a space in the Cumbres Pass area without
snowmobiles where they can pursue quiet winter sports.

2. The proposed closure goes a long way to eliminate the safety and
social conflict issues inherent in mixing winter motorized and
non-motorized use.

3. The Windy Point location of approximately 500 acres is well defined
geographically.

4. Windy Point historically has been a skier area; the 39th Chama Chile
Ski Classic was just held last weekend.

To get comments in as quickly as possible, we recommend that you email to:
comments-rocky-mountain-rio-grande-conejos-peak@fs.fed.us

This is your opportunity to help make groomed trails on Cumbres Pass a
reality. Thank you for your support!

see below official request for public comment on the closure:

Windy Point Winter Motorized Closure

Release Date: Jan 11, 2012

The Rio Grande National Forest is seeking public comment on a proposed closure order

prohibiting motorized over the snow use at Windy Point.  The proposed closure area that

we are calling Windy Point is on the west side of Cumbres Pass, adjacent to and

north/west of Highway 17. This area has been traditionally used for a cross-country ski

and snowshoe race in January for over 20 years.

The legal description is NMPM T32N. R4E. Sec. 12 & 13.

The purpose would be to provide a motorized closure for over the snow travel on the area

for up to 5 years. This would provide an area, currently not being utilized by motorized

winter recreationists, for non-motorized recreation.  There is a history of conflict between

the winter recreationists who enjoy the Cumbres Pass Area.  There is concern among the

public regarding the safety of mixed motorized and non-motorized use.  The Forest

Service will be encouraging users to come together to propose a long-term solution for

the larger scale recreation use issue.

A map and additional information on the project is available on the Rio Grande

National Forest website at http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/riogrande/projects 

Those wishing to comment are encouraged to submit their concerns in writing to:

Conejos Peak Ranger District

Attention: Windy Point Winter Motorized Closure

15571 County Road T.5

La Jara, CO 81140

E-mail comments may be sent to: comments-rocky-mountain-rio-grande-conejospeak@fs.fed.us

It is requested that all comments be received by January 31, 2012 in order to be most

effectively considered.  For further information about this proposal, please contact

Jeremiah Martinez at 719-274-6320.

Skiing on Sandia crest

Sandia Crest received about 1.5" new snow Saturday night/ Sunday am and the service road was groomed by Sandia Peak. Much improved skiing, both classic and freestyle.

Skiing on Sandia crest

Service road in very poor shape due to foot traffic and icy/hard-packed conditions; Steve Gallegos (head groomer) @ Sandia peak said they would groom the road tonite (no classic tracks). This will improve the conditions on the road immensely. Forest trails are still mostly powder but some of them have been walked in and there is a lot of debris due to the high winds we've had. The UNM team will be back next week so expect Fredrik will do some badly needed grooming on a few of the trails (and set tracks on the road).

Fun event Jan 28-29th and more events coming up!!!!

Come out for some great winter fun at the NM Cup/Low O2 Challenge events at Enchanted Forest XC Ski and Snowshoe Area on Jan 28-29th!

There will be snowshoe, classic ski and skate ski events as well as free fun kid races! This is a great place to bring the whole family to! This event is put on by Enchanted Forest and Southwest Nordic Ski Club.

   

Lodging: Golden Eagle Lodge in Red River is offering event participants early check in, late check out and off-season rates on their rooms. Some of their rooms have kitchens if you need one and our members have stayed with them many times with great reviews. Check them out here: www.goldeneaglelodgeredriver.com 

Non-skiers: If you've been wanting to try a new winter sport and have been held back by gear/equipment considerations, this is the perfect opportunity! Enchanted Forest has everything you may want to rent for snowshoeing, classic skiing, skate skiing as well as lessons! Come up to check out the scene, meet new people, experience the beautiful trails and views and enjoy winter, and who knows, it may become your favorite cross-training activity!

Also, great new quad event being put on by Pagosa Nordic on March 3rd. Perfect for triathletes and ends with a swim in an open air hot springs pool! If you are interested and would like a skier to do the xc ski leg for you, let me know by filling out the Contact Us form on our homepage, we'll find you one. Or use this NM Cup weekend to try the skiing out - you may like it and want to do it yourself (its a 5k or 10k, your choice).

You can get the event flyer and paper registration form from http://swnordicski.org under Club News and Upcoming Events section front and center (scroll down to see all events).

You may also register online here:  http://www.active.com/running/red-river-nm/new-mexico-cup-low-o2-challenge-2012 

Photos from last year's event are here:  https://picasaweb.google.com/102429734917982531356/NMCupLowO2Challenge2011 

More fun winter events happening EVERY weekend between Jan 28 and March 10th including the famous Just Desserts Eat and Ski on Feb 25th. See full list here (scroll down and click each event name bar): http://swnordicski.org/

Trails groomed with tracks set 1/20/12

Greetings skiiers. As of Thursday night the trails are freshly groomed and tracks are set. Generally speaking we are on a Sunday night Thursday night grooming schedule right now. Conditions should be great. Go ski before the late january heatwave gets it all sloppy. The trails should be fully skiable, just watch for rocks on the climb up and in the first kilometer or so on the upper and lower roads. Please help throw the egregiously large debris off the trail.

Grooming update, Monday January 16th, 2012

Sunday afternoon and again Sunday evening the groomers groomed in the new falling snow.  Classic tracks were not set, but the entire trail system was groomed wide for skating.  Monday morning another ungroomed 2-3" fell on the trail.  Conditions are good and all the old ice is now covered.

Grooming on Sandia Peak update

The service road was groomed recently by Sandia Peak so conditions were much improved there.
Lots of debris and damage to groomed loop in the forest due to people walking on the trail (including the tracks). Too bad we can't put up some signs asking people not to walk on the tracks; so far usfs refuses to permit that (hard to understand their rationale). We do all that work to groom a trail only to have either uncaring or unknowing people destroy it in an hour! Very very frustrating.

trail conditions update

January 11, 2012
I skied the trails early this AM.  Clay is correct in that the trails have not been groomed since Sat AM and in the early morning hours the trails are pretty icy.  The worst parts are in the first km and it might be necessary to walk up parts of the first hill (first 0.5 km); once out of the burn area the trails are quite nice and holding up OK.  By mid morning (depending on temps) I am betting the top icy crust on parts of the trail will soften up nice making some of the descents a bit better.

Denny

Adopt a Trail Volunteerism

from our club president Clay Moseley:


This is a little posting by one of our supporting constituents (...our good neighbor Norm Vance in Pagosa Springs) to thePagosa Springs Journal about our post-fire trail mitigation project, and about the spirit of volunteerism for an "adopt-a-trail" project in general.  Of course, we had an extraordinary thing happen with the Las Conchas Fire in 2011, but we all felt the same way even before the fire.  We love our trails and want to pass on a living legacy to "our" future generations.  Here's the piece he posted:

http://pagosasprings.com/heros-of-the-trail/

The Forest Service trails in and around Canada Bonita are very special to us, and they're used for SO many purposes: hiking, biking, running, xc skiing, snowshoeing, hunting access, and the list goes on.  Seeing so many people out enjoying them in all seasons and weather inspires and motivates the local volunteers (and the local FS Espanola Ranger District) to keep the project going.  It truly is a collaborative effort on many folks' part.

So many of you included on this message (Pajarito riders email list, the NM bike-racers, the local Nordic club and tri-club) have supported the project in various ways, through memberships, donations, volunteering, and etc., and so should be included in the story, because something like this couldn't happen without all of that support.  Thankfully, people have been very supportive over the years, especially this one.

Thanks to all of you, we'll still be able to do all of those fun trail activities (hike, xc ski, snowshoe, the Pajarito Punishment mountain bike race, the Pajarito Trail Fest runs, the Pajarito Dirty Duathlon, hunting seasons, etc., etc.). 

The Southwest Nordic Ski Club is the primary trail steward of this particular set of trails through a "volunteer cost-share" agreement with the Forest Service.  Through club memberships, donations and the cost share program with the FS, we maintain the trails and enter into trail creation/maintenance programs with the Forest Service.  It's a LOT of work, year round, and takes a lot of time, but it's totally worth it.

For all of you who have been involved in similar projects, you know what I'm talking about.  For those of you who are thinking about it, PLEASE take the next step and get involved -- there are lots of programs out there.  It's as simple as volunteering, joining, or donating.  You might even want to take on more once you see how rewarding it can be.  It's especially rewarding when you can get kids involved and they start thinking of "taking ownership" as well.

Also thanks to Norm and all of the Pagosa Springs Nordic folks.  You're good people!

Chama Chile Classic this coming weekend

This weekend is the 39th Annual Chama Chili Classic. Lots of events, both on snow and off, like xc ski races, waxing clinic, snowshoe races, frisbee golf, chili cookoff, beer tasting, yoga, etc... It's a pretty big festival and there's something for everyone.
Check the website for info, pictures, schedule, registration: www.chamaski.com
We went up and lined out the course this past weekend and saw that the snow is great and will ski/snowshoe nicely. It'll be altered just slightly from last year, but it'll still be the spectacular course that Chama is famous for. Lots of folks from around the region coming this year.
Clay Moseley

Skiing on Sandia crest

For the 3rd time this week the tram service road was groomed by Sandia Peak for skating. Unfortunately the classic tracks set by Fredrik earlier this week were obliterated by the alpine groomer (we neglected to inform them which we will correct next time classic tracks are set).
Classic tracks are still good on the UNM loop through the woods.

Skiing on Sandia crest

The service road was groomed by the Sandia Peak snowcat (for skating). Fredrik Landsted had set classic tracks on the service road (on each side) and was grooming the UNM loop when I left the area early this afternoon. The loop is still pretty soft but ski it anyway. Tracks looked like hard wax would still work despite the warm temps lately. Probably a thin coat of blue klister wouldn't hurt.

Ron McCurley, Chris Norton, Tom, Kirchgessner and George Tapley worked (shoveled/snow shoed) on the UNM loop some where it intersects the service road to level/widen it in those sections. We also worked some on the lower switchback trail to widen/level it as well (still needs work). Steve Gallegos (head groomer at Sandia Peak) told me they will groom the service road tonite. Fredrik Landstedt (UNM head ski coach) will groom it for classic and will pack and groom the UNM loop (for skating and classic) and part of switchback (for classic only) as well. Hopefully the tracks on the road will not get destroyed since vacation for schoolkids end tomorrow. It was a total zoo up there today.